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I've asked for forgiveness and apologised publicly - Eckert
Sports editorPublished11 minutes agoMore than four months since the Spygate scandal erupted, Southampton manager Tonda Eckert's wait to discover his fate for authorising an espionage campaign is almost over.
In the coming days, a decisive Football Association hearing will take place, after the German coach was charged with misconduct in July.
Spying on three clubs has already cost Southampton the chance of promotion to the Premier League (worth £200m), after they were expelled from the Championship play-off final. An EFL panel also docked the club four points for this season.
As the club prepared for the latest twist in the saga, BBC Sport spoke exclusively to both Eckert and Southampton chief executive Phil Parsons, who - in his first interview on the case - insists any further punishment would be "really tough to take".
But how are the club and their coach dealing with the prospect of more turmoil? What is at stake? And why have Southampton given a permanent role to the intern who was caught spying on Middlesbrough in May?
"I would lie if I say that the summer has just been easy. Of course, if you care deeply about your profession, about the football club, there's nothing that prepares you for that. There just isn't."
Eckert speaks slowly and with an intense gaze when asked to reflect on being at the centre of one of the biggest controversies in English football history.
The 33-year-old apologised in June after an EFL independent disciplinary commission found he had orchestrated a "contrived and determined plan" to spy on Oxford United, Ipswich Town, then Middlesbrough before the play-off semi-final.
Having insisted he was unaware it breached EFL rules, and that the spying had no impact on performances, Eckert was backed by Southampton.
His team have made an encouraging start to the new season. Without the four-point deduction, they would be fourth in the table, rather than 13th.
"We've talked a lot over the summer of how we want to go through that process of addressing everything, giving everyone the chance to put questions out that are still there, to put out what they feel and have gone through, and then also close the door and move on," he says.
"Because the reality is it's a new season. We have big ambitions as a football club, and in order to reach them, we need to move on."
That is easier said than done, with Eckert in limbo while he awaits the outcome of the FA's disciplinary process.
"I've had the chance to sit down and just talk the FA through everything that happened," he says. "And now it's up to them to make a decision. I don't really have any emotions towards that."
So does he feel the FA has listened to him during its investigation?
"That was my impression," he says. "We sat for almost four hours, so it's been quite a long conversation."
When asked whether he feels the club has been punished enough, and if a suspension for him would be excessive, Eckert chooses his words carefully.
"It's been a big, big punishment," he says. "Absolutely unheard of in the history of sports.
"And it's tough for me to say that because it concerns me. I'm judging on myself, not an outside situation. But I've asked for forgiveness for what I've done. I've apologised publicly.
"I think the punishment has been very hard on the club for the last season. And to go into a new season on minus four. And the rest is not for me to decide."
"We don't know what the FA will actually hand out," he says. "It could be a long ban. It could be a short ban. It could be a suspended sentence.
"What we hope as a club is they actually recognise where we are at the moment, and what we've already been through, because I think it has to be taken into account. I really feel like we've taken enough. We've been hurt. I think it's one of the largest sanctions ever when it comes to football, or even sporting, history.
"This isn't just about the club, this is about people. We lose money not being in the Premier League, but [local] businesses lose money. We had to spend a huge amount on legal fees, and it really impacts the club even further. We don't want to be seen as a victim of this. We need to get on. We've had our cards dealt."
When it is put to Parsons that the EFL's punishments applied to the club - rather than Eckert himself - he says: "I think it's impossible to sanction the manager without the club getting hurt even more… you've got to hope that the people in charge of this actually look at this with a balanced view."
The most recent precedent for this case came at the 2024 Olympics women's tournament, when Fifa banned Bev Priestman - Canada's head coach - from all football for a year, after opponents New Zealand were spied on.
Parsons insists "the Canadian case is very different" but if Eckert , who is only contracted until the end of the season, is also banned, how long would it have to be for the club to look elsewhere for a new coach?
"We don't know," he says, firmly denying having approached other coaches in case Eckert has to leave. Parsons also says the club may appeal if the ruling goes against them.
"We can't worry about something we can't control at the moment," he says. "We have to deal with it when we get there but we're hoping that they look at it sensibly."
Parsons says the club's ownership "want" to back Eckert.
"We've been through an entire transfer window when it comes to recruiting players for Tonda," he says. "And that's another challenge.
"You're looking for consistency. You're looking for fairness in approach. And have we had that treatment to us, [or] a disproportionate punishment? Well, I think a lot of people will view it that way. But do we want to sit there moaning about it? No.
"It's going to be really tough to take if we get another punishment, on top of being thrown out of the play-offs. Four points this season, following the previous season, and potentially more. So we're really hoping that the FA, the panel, are looking to what's already happened, because it's been really heavy."
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We don't know what the FA will hand out - Parsons
When compared to the £10m fines that both the FA and Premier League handed Chelsea this year for making £47m in secret payments related to transfers across several seasons when they were owned by Roman Abramovich, some would agree Southampton have suffered enough.
Others however, would say the FA has little choice but to sanction Eckert.
After all, according to the EFL commission, the club employed "a particularly deplorable approach" by using junior members of staff to conduct the spying "at the direction of senior personnel".
An arbitration panel then detailed how a junior analyst intern said he felt under "extreme pressure".
Southampton's initial response to the crisis also contained "inaccuracies". Middlesbrough's head of football Kieran Scott said the club's behaviour had been "disgusting"., external
And when it is put to him that many expected Southampton to sack Eckert, and had they done so they would not be facing the current uncertainty, he replies: "Yeah, but Tonda also picked up the team in around 20th place in the Championship, and without him and his team we wouldn't have been in the play-off positions, and I think that deserves a bit of loyalty.
"OK, he has made a mistake and he's paid for that dearly. This has been really tough for him as a person already. I admire how strong he's been through this process because a lot of people could have cracked, the amount of pressure he was under."
For his part, Eckert says he is "very grateful for the support of the club because that could have been very different, and I think in most cases would have been very different".
The vast majority of Southampton fans that BBC Sport spoke to also seem to fully back the manager, something he says "means everything" to him.
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Another to be supported is the intern involved - Will Salt - who was recently handed a permanent role as an analyst in the club's academy.
The scandal began when a photograph was published of Salt secretly filming Boro from behind a tree at their training ground before the play-off semi-final.
"He's been through a tough time," says Parsons.
"When your photo is put out to the public, that is something tough to deal with. A lot of people probably underestimated how that could have impacted a young lad so we've got a job to make sure that he's looked after in his early career. But he's a talented boy as well. I get good feedback and he's got a good role at the club."
Asked if reintegrating Salt had been challenging, given his allegations about the way he was treated, Parsons says: "I don't think Will said he felt under pressure directly from Tonda himself. He felt under pressure in the situation. And everybody knows in a job you can feel under pressure.
"But, yeah, I think Will's managed himself really well, and he'll grow from this."
So has the club learned its lessons? Parsons insists Eckert has studied the EFL's regulations, but also argues the rules could be clearer.
"They're very grey - that's something I'll continue to raise in EFL meetings," he says.
"But look, we've done something wrong, we'll get on with it."
Moving on is not easy, though. Last week, Wrexham's owners aimed a dig at Southampton by referencing the scandal in a social media advert before the two teams met. And during matches, rival fans regularly remind the club of the scandal.
"History is history and it'll be a part of our story going forwards," says Parsons. "It's about how we react now. It's given us a real togetherness and hopefully that continues through the season because we're stronger like that anyway.
"There's a bit of siege mentality as well, right - of 'everybody's against us', so we've got to embrace it."
The Championship has now paused until next month for the international break.
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